Curse

holden · Feb 21, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

what he's saying is, player skill is very important.

it might be good to make sure that you have yours before trashing a class. anyone watching me play my ranger in pvp can conclude that rangers suck, simply my skills in interrupting are lacking. give a skilled player a elementalist, people will say that eles are good simply because of the skilled execution.

was i trashing the class?

and thats not true. ele's have the same skills no matter who is playing them. the skills have energy cost, cast times and recharge times. a good player can't make an ele cast faster or his spells recharge quicker.

if ele's are good tell us why.

Cartoonhero · Feb 21, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

i used to play nothing but pve. i put 5 chars through the game in its entirtey, never getting run anywhere. im now a member of a small pvp oriented guild, and i still have to say ele is my favorite class. you must play an ele very differently in pvp from pve though. in pvp, an ele is a utility class. i carry wards and heals, i counter degen,hexes,and warriors. i help keep my team fighting. its quite a good feeling really, although, in pve my 2nd most played char was a monk, so maybe thats part of the reason i get so much satisfaction from protecting my team with my ele. in pve(i mostly stick to fow,uw, and sorrows now), i still nuke. its just that you cant smash skills and still excpect to do what you did before the aoe nerf. you have to have some common sense, which, is somewhat lacking in many of the eles i've met. i've also grown to love earth. its a great farming element. i do agree that eles need a bit of a buff after all that nerfing though. my 2cents. ^_^

moriz · Feb 21, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

no, you're just trashing someone who plays the class.

a class is only as good as the player makes it to be. there are much more to a class than just skills, energy cost, casting times, and recharge times. a good player can't make an ele cast faster or recharge faster, but the player CAN decide WHEN to use those skills for maximum effect. a good player can't change the ele's armor level, but the player CAN choose to stand behind objects/meatshields and execute an uninterrupted spell chain.

we need to realize that the elementalist is not designed like a warrior. we can't just jam away at the skills and hope that the char will carry itself through.

so the answer to your last sentence is this: eles are as good as you make them to be. if you find them to be not good, then you know the answer to your problem. after all, you caused it.

Ira Blinks · Feb 21, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

true... nerfed dot aoe spells still need reduction in cast time/energy cost tho...

Zhou Feng · Feb 21, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgortner

Hi there,

A friend of mine, of which whome loves elementalist, has lost his faith with the nerfing of either prodigy and the AOE AI update. Also he read some stupid article that claimed they can't do as much damage as a warrior wailing away with an empty skill bar.

Anyhow I need your help to bring up well though, sound, and supported conversation proving that elementalist is an integral part of the game in both PvP and PvE.

Sound arguments encouraged. Two liners saying "ELLLEE MENTALIST IS DA BONB I USE AIR TO SPIKE AND IT ROCKS" discouraged.

I'd tell him myself, but I don't play elementalist much. Thanks everyone.

Isaac Ixbane

The AoE AI upgrade seems rather harsh but this is only because most PvE players are foolish enough not to understand that mobs are still susceptible to snares.

Your friend thinks Elementalist lacks powerand that Warriors do more damage on empty skill slots, surely he must be smoking crack. Here are a few things.

If you run a pure elementalist then you should invest on your offense line of choice. Let's say its Fire Magic. Next you need to invest on either earth magic or water magic but only to make these spells snares efficient enough for AoE effects. If I where to run a Fire Nuker I'd certainly bring in some snaring from Water magic.

If you'd want to make an elementalist that does a lot of damage, much more then any warrior, drop the AoE spells go for powerful singler target attacks.

An Ele/Me with One Target Fire spells that do fire damage plus turn enemies on fire coupled with Mark of Rodgort and the mesmers Phantom Pain and Conjure Phantasm make for good damage and DoT.

Also a Water Elementalist are now readily usable in PvE. Their ability to snare multiple enemies allows another dedicated Elementalist Nuker to work in concert with them WHICH IS WHAT the game is really about: Teamwork.

Tell your friend to go make a team of one fire nuker one water snarer one non-slotted warrior and a monk then let me know who really does the damage. Chances are the Fire and Water mage with their snares and AoE and DoT effects.

Now if that warrior where a dedicated Tiger Fury Axe Warrior then that would be a diffrent story but Axe Warriors deal massive amounts of damage anyway.

Zhou Feng · Feb 21, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

was i trashing the class?

and thats not true. ele's have the same skills no matter who is playing them. the skills have energy cost, cast times and recharge times. a good player can't make an ele cast faster or his spells recharge quicker.

if ele's are good tell us why.

Since when does the Ele need fast casting or faster recharging?
Ele have lots of energy. This in itself is one of their best assets but foolish players believe that they can waste their precious energy any way they want. Tsk tsk. Let them try play a monk which require precise energy management, can't cast any faster nor get any faster recharges. Does this make them any less useful? Of course not. Otherwise Necros who also have a lot of slow cast spells would be screwed too. What ele players need is to understand:

How NOT TO BELIEVE they are immune to damage. Learn to hide, move around, look for strategic options.

Make good use of their attunements. Hell when I used my water elementalist *gasp* I always had Water Attunement at least to keep my ele going. Also make use of that nifty spell that heal's while you cast.

Learn to invest in attributes that will help. Earth and water for defense and snaring.

Learn to use cheap fast spells to wittle and the stronmger slower casting spells when the time is right. What's the use of calling up a meteor storm if you haven't snared the mobs first? Id say thats a horrible waste of mana and time, because you neglected to prepare the mobs up for your awesome spell.

If any ele plays in PvP they would learn that most people DO GET OUT OF AoE as SOON as they can. Does this make them any worse? Hell no! They just snare your ass and still hit you with AoE. Or better yet hit you with powerful single target spells.

LightningHell · Feb 22, 2006, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Meteor Shower does not make mobs scatter.

All in all, however, do use that Ice Spikes or Deep Freeze before your Fire Storm.

holden · Feb 22, 2006, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

no, you're just trashing someone who plays the class.

a class is only as good as the player makes it to be. there are much more to a class than just skills, energy cost, casting times, and recharge times. a good player can't make an ele cast faster or recharge faster, but the player CAN decide WHEN to use those skills for maximum effect. a good player can't change the ele's armor level, but the player CAN choose to stand behind objects/meatshields and execute an uninterrupted spell chain.

we need to realize that the elementalist is not designed like a warrior. we can't just jam away at the skills and hope that the char will carry itself through.

so the answer to your last sentence is this: eles are as good as you make them to be. if you find them to be not good, then you know the answer to your problem. after all, you caused it.

lol. at least cartoon hero gets it

Damonias · Feb 22, 2006, 12:47 PM // 12:47

If you've lost faith in Ele's see my thread:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=125921

That should change your mind about them real quick. Long live the Fire Ele!!! (Or any element you should chose to do with a Dual Attunement set up)

Faer · Feb 22, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

<rant>

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

all you're saying is your ele can survive in pve. you can cause monsters to scatter with your aoe attacks. big deal. you give us no reason to believe you can do anything in pvp.
you give us nothing but your opinions. 'die wishing that they never ganged up on me'. 'any ele can do anything'.

what does running to yaks have to do with anything.

Running to Yak's Bend means an Elementalist can do what those W/Mo's charge a few thousand for. Running to Yak's Bend when not paying attention means that a skilled Elementalist player can do without caring what many W/Mo's have to watch while they do it. Now, how can a low-armor spellcaster do what a high-armor Tanker can't do (or at least not with ease)?

And what is wrong with PvE? Guild Wars isn't all about PvP, even if you choose to make it as such for your own play. If it was, there wouldn't be a PvE, now would there? Some of us actually care about story, plot, and game content rather than "OMG I HAVE RANK 12 AND 21987561987645 FAME U SUCK HAHAHA". Just because all you care about is bragging rights doesn't mean that's all the rest of us care about.

I didn't just give opinions. If you even bothered to read the majority of my post you would have seen that I gave specific examples as to the uses and usefulness of certain skills. An Elementalist/XXXX (second profession doesn't matter as I never used it) using the build I was using until last night can solo farm the entire damn Desert. Why bother spending the money to make a 55 Monk or some other form of Invinci-class?

The entire point is that when used properly, an Elementalist can take on any situation, in PvE or PvP, though I did not give any PvP examples. You have obviously never taken time to really play the Elementalist class and get a feel for its many advantages and disadvantages. You go by what you read here and at other places.

Here's a tip: don't judge based on what other people have said. Do it yourself first!

Until you have taken the time to play the Elementalist class, and I mean really play it (learn to manage the energy and work around casting times and recharge rates, among other things), then butt out.

Besides...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgortner

Anyhow I need your help to bring up well though, sound, and supported conversation proving that elementalist is an integral part of the game in both PvP and PvE.

I do believe I see "PvE" in there. Don't you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Meteor Shower does not make mobs scatter.

Please, tell me what messed up patch you are using, because I want it. Meteor Shower does cause scattering. If they don't scatter for you then either the patch got screwed up in some weird way that didn't totally ruin your game data files (highly unlikely and improbable) or you've just been lucky and haven't seen them get up and move out of the way because they got knocked down too many times. I use the spell five to six times every four hours of Ele play, so trust me, I know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

what he's saying is, player skill is very important.

it might be good to make sure that you have yours before trashing a class. anyone watching me play my ranger in pvp can conclude that rangers suck, simply my skills in interrupting are lacking. give a skilled player a elementalist, people will say that eles are good simply because of the skilled execution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

a class is only as good as the player makes it to be. there are much more to a class than just skills, energy cost, casting times, and recharge times. a good player can't make an ele cast faster or recharge faster, but the player CAN decide WHEN to use those skills for maximum effect. a good player can't change the ele's armor level, but the player CAN choose to stand behind objects/meatshields and execute an uninterrupted spell chain.

we need to realize that the elementalist is not designed like a warrior. we can't just jam away at the skills and hope that the char will carry itself through.

Three cheers for moriz.

Anyway, I do believe I am done here... Things to do, places to go, a life to obtain from the shop on the corner. The usual gamer drill.

</rant>

Damonias · Feb 22, 2006, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Just a note on Meteor Shower:

Meteor Shower by itself (please note the 'by itself') does NOT cause scattering. Anyone who says differently just doesn't know the game. But again, I say 'BY ITSELF'.

Because meteor shower does it's damage once every 3 seconds it avoids the game rule of 2 seconds or Less. Basically, scatter is caused by creatures being hit by 2 AOE spells in under 2 seconds. Those people that think Meteor Shower is causing scatter are using other AOE spells while Meteor Shower is doing damage. When you do this, the second AOE spell hitting at near the same time as Meteor shower is actually causing the scatter, not Meteor Shower itself. Often people won't notice this because of the knock down component of meteor shower, but it is most noticable when you are fighting creatures that are immune to knockdown.

So to summarize:
Meteor Shower BY ITSELF does NOT cause scatter. But the moment you cast another AOE spell on the same group that is being hit by Meteor Shower, you have a possibility of having scatter occur.

holden · Feb 22, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote: